Discussion:
win 8.1.1 iso
(too old to reply)
lew
2014-04-08 16:37:37 UTC
Permalink
Wonder if it is really true that msft will be releasing 8.1.1 as an iso.

Now wonder if a check for running 8.1 prior to downloading it.

see: http://news.softpedia.com/news/Windows-8-1-Update-1-ISOs-Also-Coming-433590.shtml

for article.
Todd
2014-04-09 01:52:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by lew
Wonder if it is really true that msft will be releasing 8.1.1 as an iso.
Now wonder if a check for running 8.1 prior to downloading it.
see: http://news.softpedia.com/news/Windows-8-1-Update-1-ISOs-Also-Coming-433590.shtml
for article.
Any idea if your F8.0 key will work with the
8.1.1 ISO?
--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
the riddle wrapped in an enigma wrapped
in a couple slices of baloney
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Good Guy
2014-04-09 02:20:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by Todd
Post by lew
Wonder if it is really true that msft will be releasing 8.1.1 as an iso.
Now wonder if a check for running 8.1 prior to downloading it.
http://news.softpedia.com/news/Windows-8-1-Update-1-ISOs-Also-Coming-433590.shtml
for article.
Any idea if your F8.0 key will work with the
8.1.1 ISO?
No. It won't work. You'll need to buy the full version in the shops
with new serial number. It is like Windows 8.1. I wasn't able to use
Windows 8 serial number on it but the update from Microsoft website went
without problems.

I bought Windows 8.1 DVD so that I get both 32 bit and 64 bit in the
same box (but one serial number for both!!!!!!!!). this did not accept
my Windows 8 serial number when I tried it to install on a test machine.
--
Good Guy
Website: http://mytaxsite.co.uk
Website: http://html-css.co.uk
Email: http://mytaxsite.co.uk/contact-us
Todd
2014-04-09 02:45:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by Good Guy
Post by Todd
Post by lew
Wonder if it is really true that msft will be releasing 8.1.1 as an iso.
Now wonder if a check for running 8.1 prior to downloading it.
http://news.softpedia.com/news/Windows-8-1-Update-1-ISOs-Also-Coming-433590.shtml
for article.
Any idea if your F8.0 key will work with the
8.1.1 ISO?
No. It won't work. You'll need to buy the full version in the shops
with new serial number. It is like Windows 8.1. I wasn't able to use
Windows 8 serial number on it but the update from Microsoft website went
without problems.
I bought Windows 8.1 DVD so that I get both 32 bit and 64 bit in the
same box (but one serial number for both!!!!!!!!). this did not accept
my Windows 8 serial number when I tried it to install on a test machine.
A** H***s. It is just a service pack. M$ found a way to
make more money off those desperate to patch Frankenstein
to get it to work reasonably. Any other company in the
world would say "Sorry, let me fix that for you". Not M$!
--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
the riddle wrapped in an enigma wrapped
in a couple slices of baloney
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Good Guy
2014-04-09 03:21:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by Todd
A** H***s. It is just a service pack. M$ found a way to
make more money off those desperate to patch Frankenstein
to get it to work reasonably. Any other company in the
world would say "Sorry, let me fix that for you". Not M$!
Yes it is a service pack under a different name. However, I understand
that it is mandatory for everybody who wants to continue receiving
updates for Windows 8.1. Microsoft will stop providing updates for 8.1
unless you upgrade the system to 8.1.1.

It seems Microsoft is getting tough on Security issues.
--
Good Guy
Website: http://mytaxsite.co.uk
Website: http://html-css.co.uk
Email: http://mytaxsite.co.uk/contact-us
Todd
2014-04-09 03:56:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by Good Guy
Post by Todd
A** H***s. It is just a service pack. M$ found a way to
make more money off those desperate to patch Frankenstein
to get it to work reasonably. Any other company in the
world would say "Sorry, let me fix that for you". Not M$!
Yes it is a service pack under a different name. However, I understand
that it is mandatory for everybody who wants to continue receiving
updates for Windows 8.1. Microsoft will stop providing updates for 8.1
unless you upgrade the system to 8.1.1.
It seems Microsoft is getting tough on Security issues.
And making a buck off their bad quality while they are
at it. :'(
--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
the riddle wrapped in an enigma wrapped
in a couple slices of baloney
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
...winston
2014-04-09 08:45:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by Todd
Post by Good Guy
Post by Todd
A** H***s. It is just a service pack. M$ found a way to
make more money off those desperate to patch Frankenstein
to get it to work reasonably. Any other company in the
world would say "Sorry, let me fix that for you". Not M$!
Yes it is a service pack under a different name. However, I understand
that it is mandatory for everybody who wants to continue receiving
updates for Windows 8.1. Microsoft will stop providing updates for 8.1
unless you upgrade the system to 8.1.1.
It seems Microsoft is getting tough on Security issues.
And making a buck off their bad quality while they are
at it. :'(
Not much different than the past..after a Service Pack was released, the
full version of the o/s including the Service Pack was RTM'd to
retail/OEM media and OEM pc builders.

If one wanted the full o/s with the Service Pack included purchase was
necessary, with 8.1 and 8.1 Update 1...it's the same.

What's different is the media for upgrading from a prior o/s - Win7 and
Win 8.0 were available as upgrade media.
--
...winston
msft mvp consumer apps
lew
2014-04-09 16:19:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by ...winston
Post by Todd
Post by Good Guy
Post by Todd
A** H***s. It is just a service pack. M$ found a way to
make more money off those desperate to patch Frankenstein
to get it to work reasonably. Any other company in the
world would say "Sorry, let me fix that for you". Not M$!
Yes it is a service pack under a different name. However, I understand
that it is mandatory for everybody who wants to continue receiving
updates for Windows 8.1. Microsoft will stop providing updates for 8.1
unless you upgrade the system to 8.1.1.
It seems Microsoft is getting tough on Security issues.
And making a buck off their bad quality while they are
at it. :'(
Not much different than the past..after a Service Pack was released, the
full version of the o/s including the Service Pack was RTM'd to
retail/OEM media and OEM pc builders.
If one wanted the full o/s with the Service Pack included purchase was
necessary, with 8.1 and 8.1 Update 1...it's the same.
What's different is the media for upgrading from a prior o/s - Win7 and
Win 8.0 were available as upgrade media.
The iso files were on MSDN & TechNews so it is a "paid" item via the
subscription.

To have a full os w/sp, one just needed to stream the sp into the os
with the free utilities available; done that with xp & win7. But now
msft has the win7 w/sp iso available for download & it still worked
with the original key when I went back from 8.1 to win7. Not sure
but think the streamed may be better because many updates have
already been applied verses the msft version which probably used
the original os & sp.

It looks like msft changed things with win8 & 8.1. Now "all lupdates"
have to be done with 8.1.1 as stated? Does that mean anyone who
didn't update to 8.1.1 will not get any more updates/patches?

Anyway, I installed the offline 8.1.1 from an usb flash drive that
had all the KB's; interesting that selecting the 691 MB file to run
also installed(?) all the rest of the files, hopefully in sequence....
...winston
2014-04-10 07:05:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by lew
It looks like msft changed things with win8 & 8.1. Now "all lupdates"
have to be done with 8.1.1 as stated? Does that mean anyone who
didn't update to 8.1.1 will not get any more updates/patches?
Anyway, I installed the offline 8.1.1 from an usb flash drive that
had all the KB's; interesting that selecting the 691 MB file to run
also installed(?) all the rest of the files, hopefully in sequence....
Afaics, 8.1 Update 1 is the new baseline to receive future updates.
- i.e. 8.1 Update 1 is a mandatory install to 8.1 (and 8.0)
- I've not really looked or expected at this time for the effective
date of implementation to be made public, though with 8.0 EOL in 2yrs
that could be the default date.
--
...winston
msft mvp consumer apps
Good Guy
2014-04-09 02:16:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by lew
Wonder if it is really true that msft will be releasing 8.1.1 as an iso.
Now wonder if a check for running 8.1 prior to downloading it.
see: http://news.softpedia.com/news/Windows-8-1-Update-1-ISOs-Also-Coming-433590.shtml
for article.
I thought the update is already online:

<http://www.microsoft.com/en-us/download/details.aspx?id=42327>

Go to the above link and click on Details to see what is included.

If you are talking about 8.1.1 ISO for installing on a new machine then
I doubt it. You might be able to buy it in the shops but you won't be
able to download it from Microsoft Website. Why should they supply full
version free of charge?
--
Good Guy
Website: http://mytaxsite.co.uk
Website: http://html-css.co.uk
Email: http://mytaxsite.co.uk/contact-us
Todd
2014-04-09 02:46:02 UTC
Permalink
Why should they supply full version free of charge?
Maybe because they don't work without the key?
--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
the riddle wrapped in an enigma wrapped
in a couple slices of baloney
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Roderick Stewart
2014-04-09 10:12:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by Todd
Why should they supply full version free of charge?
Maybe because they don't work without the key?
It would be nice if it worked with the same key that you've already
paid for. If I understand this correctly, if I need to reinstall
W8.1.1 on my laptop (on a replacement SSD for example), I can't just
install it once from a new system disk for the most recent version.

I'll have to install the original system first from a basic W8 disk
because that's what was installed on the laptop when I bought it,
*then* activate it with the original key, *then* upgrade it to W8.1,
not from a disk but by means of that 3.5GB download all over again,
*then* do the online upgrade to 8.1.1, which was another 800MB if I
recall corectly. It's still activated after all that, so presumably
would be if I had to do it all again, but what a performance! I have a
reasonably fast internet connection so it worked for me, but if
Microsoft have assumed that everybody can easily manage a download of
more than 4GB, they're going to annoy even more people than they did
with that bewildering new interface.

Rod.
...winston
2014-04-10 08:04:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by Roderick Stewart
Post by Todd
Why should they supply full version free of charge?
Maybe because they don't work without the key?
It would be nice if it worked with the same key that you've already
paid for. If I understand this correctly, if I need to reinstall
W8.1.1 on my laptop (on a replacement SSD for example), I can't just
install it once from a new system disk for the most recent version.
I'll have to install the original system first from a basic W8 disk
because that's what was installed on the laptop when I bought it,
*then* activate it with the original key, *then* upgrade it to W8.1,
not from a disk but by means of that 3.5GB download all over again,
*then* do the online upgrade to 8.1.1, which was another 800MB if I
recall corectly. It's still activated after all that, so presumably
would be if I had to do it all again, but what a performance! I have a
reasonably fast internet connection so it worked for me, but if
Microsoft have assumed that everybody can easily manage a download of
more than 4GB, they're going to annoy even more people than they did
with that bewildering new interface.
Rod.
Or....create a system image of 8.1.1 on an external device (drive or
network) and create a bootable usb recovery thumb drive or disk.

Or....invest in imaging software (Acronis 2014, Symantec System Recovery
2013, Easus ToDo Backup Home)
--
...winston
msft mvp consumer apps
Todd
2014-04-11 21:04:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by ...winston
Post by Roderick Stewart
Post by Todd
Why should they supply full version free of charge?
Maybe because they don't work without the key?
It would be nice if it worked with the same key that you've already
paid for. If I understand this correctly, if I need to reinstall
W8.1.1 on my laptop (on a replacement SSD for example), I can't just
install it once from a new system disk for the most recent version.
I'll have to install the original system first from a basic W8 disk
because that's what was installed on the laptop when I bought it,
*then* activate it with the original key, *then* upgrade it to W8.1,
not from a disk but by means of that 3.5GB download all over again,
*then* do the online upgrade to 8.1.1, which was another 800MB if I
recall corectly. It's still activated after all that, so presumably
would be if I had to do it all again, but what a performance! I have a
reasonably fast internet connection so it worked for me, but if
Microsoft have assumed that everybody can easily manage a download of
more than 4GB, they're going to annoy even more people than they did
with that bewildering new interface.
Rod.
Or....create a system image of 8.1.1 on an external device (drive or
network) and create a bootable usb recovery thumb drive or disk.
Or....invest in imaging software (Acronis 2014, Symantec System Recovery
2013, Easus ToDo Backup Home)
Hi Winston,

This might not be useful for those that don't have a foot
in both the Windows and Linux world, but I do love
CloneZilla for making images and transferring to new
hard drives (run chkdsk first!):

http://www.clonezilla.org/

I also love to use gparted to resize the partitions:

http://gparted.sourceforge.net/livecd.php

gparted comes on the Fedora Xfce Live CD. (I asked for it
to be included. Try getting that customer service from M$!)

https://spins.fedoraproject.org/xfce/#downloads

And they are all Open Source and free.

I also have Live USB sticks of the above. Run so much
faster than a Live CD. Plus, lately with the of some
CD players and customers with new computers and CABDs
(Cheap Ass Bastard Disease) I have been finding the Live
CD breaking the old drives and the cheap ass new drives.
(You paid how much for that piece of s***? $300.00?)

-T

p.s. one of my XP virtual machines corrupted on me on Wednesday.
Today, I restored its image from Linux backup. Took about
fifteen minutes. It is the same idea as your advice to
make a clone.
--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
the riddle wrapped in an enigma wrapped
in a couple slices of baloney
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Roderick Stewart
2014-04-11 22:06:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by Todd
This might not be useful for those that don't have a foot
in both the Windows and Linux world, but I do love
CloneZilla for making images and transferring to new
http://www.clonezilla.org/
http://gparted.sourceforge.net/livecd.php
gparted comes on the Fedora Xfce Live CD. (I asked for it
to be included. Try getting that customer service from M$!)
https://spins.fedoraproject.org/xfce/#downloads
Gparted is on the Ubuntu live CD too, and at least one of the Mint
ones, Cinnamon I think. Yes, it's much more useful than Disk
Management in Windows. It can manage all the common formats including
NTFS, but Windows can't even tell what the Linux partitions are.

Rod.
Todd
2014-04-11 22:37:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by Roderick Stewart
Post by Todd
This might not be useful for those that don't have a foot
in both the Windows and Linux world, but I do love
CloneZilla for making images and transferring to new
http://www.clonezilla.org/
http://gparted.sourceforge.net/livecd.php
gparted comes on the Fedora Xfce Live CD. (I asked for it
to be included. Try getting that customer service from M$!)
https://spins.fedoraproject.org/xfce/#downloads
Gparted is on the Ubuntu live CD too, and at least one of the Mint
ones, Cinnamon I think. Yes, it's much more useful than Disk
Management in Windows. It can manage all the common formats including
NTFS, but Windows can't even tell what the Linux partitions are.
Rod.
Hi Rod,

Xfce had dropped it from Live 18. I gave them the big
eyes, so they put it back in 19. They are up the Fedora Core
20 now. They then dropped Firefox to make room. Midori
works fine for what I need. If I have to demo Firefox,
I just load it up.

On the live USB, they have about 4 GB of "persistence",
so if you don't get "too" happy loading things up, you
can customize it to your needs.

I add Firefox, Java, Java File Manager, chntpw (for
resetting passwords), ntfxfix (corrects the "Dirty Flag"
so you can use CloneZilla), gdisk (for killing GPT
partitions), xdiskusage (for finding that HUGE file).

Plus a bunch of notes on the desktop.

-T
--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
the riddle wrapped in an enigma wrapped
in a couple slices of baloney
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
...winston
2014-04-12 02:31:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by Todd
Post by ...winston
Or....invest in imaging software (Acronis 2014, Symantec System Recovery
2013, Easus ToDo Backup Home)
Hi Winston,
This might not be useful for those that don't have a foot
in both the Windows and Linux world, but I do love
CloneZilla for making images and transferring to new
http://www.clonezilla.org/
http://gparted.sourceforge.net/livecd.php
gparted comes on the Fedora Xfce Live CD. (I asked for it
to be included. Try getting that customer service from M$!)
https://spins.fedoraproject.org/xfce/#downloads
And they are all Open Source and free.
I also have Live USB sticks of the above. Run so much
faster than a Live CD. Plus, lately with the of some
CD players and customers with new computers and CABDs
(Cheap Ass Bastard Disease) I have been finding the Live
CD breaking the old drives and the cheap ass new drives.
(You paid how much for that piece of s***? $300.00?)
-T
p.s. one of my XP virtual machines corrupted on me on Wednesday.
Today, I restored its image from Linux backup. Took about
fifteen minutes. It is the same idea as your advice to
make a clone.
Clones, backup images with Windows provided tools or third party clones
and images are, imo, value added and should be required as the price of
admission to computing with any o/s. Free or fee - find one that meets
your needs and use it.
--
...winston
msft mvp consumer apps
Todd
2014-04-12 03:31:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by ...winston
Post by Todd
Post by ...winston
Or....invest in imaging software (Acronis 2014, Symantec System Recovery
2013, Easus ToDo Backup Home)
Hi Winston,
This might not be useful for those that don't have a foot
in both the Windows and Linux world, but I do love
CloneZilla for making images and transferring to new
http://www.clonezilla.org/
http://gparted.sourceforge.net/livecd.php
gparted comes on the Fedora Xfce Live CD. (I asked for it
to be included. Try getting that customer service from M$!)
https://spins.fedoraproject.org/xfce/#downloads
And they are all Open Source and free.
I also have Live USB sticks of the above. Run so much
faster than a Live CD. Plus, lately with the of some
CD players and customers with new computers and CABDs
(Cheap Ass Bastard Disease) I have been finding the Live
CD breaking the old drives and the cheap ass new drives.
(You paid how much for that piece of s***? $300.00?)
-T
p.s. one of my XP virtual machines corrupted on me on Wednesday.
Today, I restored its image from Linux backup. Took about
fifteen minutes. It is the same idea as your advice to
make a clone.
Clones, backup images with Windows provided tools or third party clones
and images are, imo, value added and should be required as the price of
admission to computing with any o/s. Free or fee - find one that meets
your needs and use it.
Hi Winston,

You don't need this crap with other operating systems. The
need only arises in Windows as it is such shit. I have Linux
servers running for years that never ever crash. The first
thing you will notice with OSx or Linux is that you can run
them all day and never have to reboot. Hell, iOS runs ad infinitum
without crashing. This is a Windows thing.

The only reason people buy Windows -- it is utter shit -- is
the availability of off the shelf software. Windows wipes everyone
else's face in it with when it comes to applications.

Now if you were to modify your comment to those that run Windows,
then I would agree. You have to protect yourself somehow.
If you have to run Windows to get your work done, then you
have to. And you have to protect yourself somehow.

By the way, I can, and do, back up 100% of everything on
a weekly basis with Linux. And I can recover 100% of
everything, and have on at least four occasions. I have
done full recoveries from backup. None of this partial
backup, shadow copy ha ha, shit like you get with Windows.

I do not even consider Windows to be a "professional" operating
system as it is such shit.

And, yes, I can still swear and still be a gentleman:

"The idea that no gentleman ever swears is all wrong. He
can swear and still be a gentleman if he does it in a nice
and benevolent and affectionate way."

--Mark Twain - Private and Public Morals speech, 1906

-T

By the way. Linux journals out bad spots on your hard drive.
You never even know you have them, unless you look at your
error logs. Windows on the other hand ... (see my "such
shit" remarks above.)
--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Computers are like air conditioners.
They malfunction when you open windows
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Ron
2014-04-12 06:57:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by Todd
Post by ...winston
Post by Todd
Post by ...winston
Or....invest in imaging software (Acronis 2014, Symantec System Recovery
2013, Easus ToDo Backup Home)
Hi Winston,
This might not be useful for those that don't have a foot
in both the Windows and Linux world, but I do love
CloneZilla for making images and transferring to new
http://www.clonezilla.org/
http://gparted.sourceforge.net/livecd.php
gparted comes on the Fedora Xfce Live CD. (I asked for it
to be included. Try getting that customer service from M$!)
https://spins.fedoraproject.org/xfce/#downloads
And they are all Open Source and free.
I also have Live USB sticks of the above. Run so much
faster than a Live CD. Plus, lately with the of some
CD players and customers with new computers and CABDs
(Cheap Ass Bastard Disease) I have been finding the Live
CD breaking the old drives and the cheap ass new drives.
(You paid how much for that piece of s***? $300.00?)
-T
p.s. one of my XP virtual machines corrupted on me on Wednesday.
Today, I restored its image from Linux backup. Took about
fifteen minutes. It is the same idea as your advice to
make a clone.
Clones, backup images with Windows provided tools or third party clones
and images are, imo, value added and should be required as the price of
admission to computing with any o/s. Free or fee - find one that meets
your needs and use it.
Hi Winston,
You don't need this crap with other operating systems. The
need only arises in Windows as it is such shit. I have Linux
servers running for years that never ever crash. The first
thing you will notice with OSx or Linux is that you can run
them all day and never have to reboot. Hell, iOS runs ad infinitum
without crashing. This is a Windows thing.
The only reason people buy Windows -- it is utter shit -- is
the availability of off the shelf software. Windows wipes everyone
else's face in it with when it comes to applications.
Now if you were to modify your comment to those that run Windows,
then I would agree. You have to protect yourself somehow.
If you have to run Windows to get your work done, then you
have to. And you have to protect yourself somehow.
By the way, I can, and do, back up 100% of everything on
a weekly basis with Linux. And I can recover 100% of
everything, and have on at least four occasions. I have
done full recoveries from backup. None of this partial
backup, shadow copy ha ha, shit like you get with Windows.
I do not even consider Windows to be a "professional" operating
system as it is such shit.
"The idea that no gentleman ever swears is all wrong. He
can swear and still be a gentleman if he does it in a nice
and benevolent and affectionate way."
--Mark Twain - Private and Public Morals speech, 1906
-T
By the way. Linux journals out bad spots on your hard drive.
You never even know you have them, unless you look at your
error logs. Windows on the other hand ... (see my "such
shit" remarks above.)
I'm just gonna come out and say it. If you like Linux so much, then why
the fuck are you in a Windows group?
Todd
2014-04-12 19:00:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ron
I'm just gonna come out and say it. If you like Linux so much, then why
the fuck are you in a Windows group?
Because I have to be. The lack of off the shelf applications
prevents almost all of my customers from switching away from
Windows. On the application front, Windows wipes Linux, OSx,
and everyone else's face in it. There is usually no alternative.
Ron
2014-04-13 00:04:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by Todd
Post by Ron
I'm just gonna come out and say it. If you like Linux so much, then why
the fuck are you in a Windows group?
Because I have to be. The lack of off the shelf applications
prevents almost all of my customers from switching away from
Windows. On the application front, Windows wipes Linux, OSx,
and everyone else's face in it. There is usually no alternative.
Your long ass rants have nothing to do with your costumers. I don't
thing I've ever seen you post to a thread w/o slamming Windows and then
talk about how great Linux is. That is not a reason to "have to be here".

Also, I can't believe that you even had to ask in another group if you
should warranty one of your customers computers. It's a no-brainer if
you want your business to expand by word of mouth. Suck it up and stop
blaming your customers grandchildren on something that was more than
likely your mistake.
Todd
2014-04-13 02:17:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ron
Your long ass rants have nothing to do with your costumers. I don't
thing I've ever seen you post to a thread w/o slamming Windows and then
talk about how great Linux is.
Read more of my posts.

By the way, I see providing information that is typically
withheld by proponents of this or that favorite pet
project to be ethical behavior. You can't approach solving
a problem until you have accurate information.
Post by Ron
Also, I can't believe that you even had to ask in another group if you
should warranty one of your customers computers. It's a no-brainer if
you want your business to expand by word of mouth. Suck it up and stop
blaming your customers grandchildren on something that was more than
likely your mistake.
Hi Ron,

Improve your reading skills. I was not asking if I should
warranty one of my customer's computers. I was asking
if I had make a technical mistake and, if so, how to fix it.
I was asking for technical advice, not for business advice.
I was very clear.

As far as my customer, I cut him a huge deal and he
was very happy. "Relationships outlive transactions".
I did mention that in the thread, when offered
business advice.

And, when I make the mistake, the whole thing is
free, lock, stock, and barrel. When the customer asks
why, I tell him that is one of the privileges of
using a professional. Same when they order parts
through me.

And the problem stopped after I removed admin privileges
from his user account: grandchildren.

By the way, his work computer is so clean it
squeaks. Had he been the one to put all those
junkware optimizers on, his own computer would
have shown the same. Again, grandchildren.

-T
--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
the riddle wrapped in an enigma wrapped
in a couple slices of baloney
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
...winston
2014-04-13 03:22:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by Todd
I was not asking if I should
warranty one of my customer's computers. I was asking
if I had make a technical mistake and, if so, how to fix it.
I was asking for technical advice, not for business advice.
I was very clear.
Just a word of advice take it or discard it.

You've probably worn out your welcome.
Expecting technical advice responses from this group with the same
approach and abrasiveness is approaching (or already has reached) pipe
dream state.

Good luck!
--
...winston
msft mvp consumer apps
Todd
2014-04-13 03:48:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by ...winston
Post by Todd
I was not asking if I should
warranty one of my customer's computers. I was asking
if I had make a technical mistake and, if so, how to fix it.
I was asking for technical advice, not for business advice.
I was very clear.
Just a word of advice take it or discard it.
You've probably worn out your welcome.
Expecting technical advice responses from this group with the same
approach and abrasiveness is approaching (or already has reached) pipe
dream state.
Good luck!
Hi Winston,

Just tell me when you think I am being abrasive. Don't
mistake me being free and open with information as being
anti-social.

-T
--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
the riddle wrapped in an enigma wrapped
in a couple slices of baloney
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Todd
2014-04-13 04:04:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by ...winston
Post by Todd
I was not asking if I should
warranty one of my customer's computers. I was asking
if I had make a technical mistake and, if so, how to fix it.
I was asking for technical advice, not for business advice.
I was very clear.
Just a word of advice take it or discard it.
You've probably worn out your welcome.
Expecting technical advice responses from this group with the same
approach and abrasiveness is approaching (or already has reached) pipe
dream state.
Good luck!
Hi Winston,

Do you notice how some complain about their
treatment over on the GNU side of Use Net,
but act just as bad over here? It is
sad when people ask for help and get
condescension in return. Happens on all
groups.

I haven't done a study on it, but more so on
Windows groups that on Linux groups, but then
again, as you say, I can be abrasive (over
things that don't work). Windows groups
take the cake for tech evangelism.

My experience is that those that know what
they are doing love to share: can't shut them
up. Those that don't, condescend.

“He who asks is a fool for five minutes,
but he who does not ask remains a fool
forever.”
― Mark Twain

-T
...winston
2014-04-13 18:15:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by Todd
Hi Winston,
Do you notice how some complain about their
treatment over on the GNU side of Use Net,
but act just as bad over here?
If you haven't realized it yet...the majority of this group's users
probably hold the same position as I in this forum regarding what
transpires in the GNU side of Usenet.
- Don't know, don't care and not relevant to this forum
--
...winston
msft mvp consumer apps
...winston
2014-04-12 10:50:28 UTC
Permalink
Todd rambled on, On 4/11/2014 11:31 PM:
Many people and organizations run OSx and Linux for a variety of
different reasons and ecoysystems and are probably disagree that OSx and
Linux never crashes.

In fact its statistically impossible to claim so and data would validate
the same.


https://www.google.com/search?q=Linux+crashed&sourceid=ie7&rls=com.microsoft:en-US:IE-Address&ie=&oe=
--
...winston
msft mvp consumer apps
Paul
2014-04-12 13:13:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by ...winston
Many people and organizations run OSx and Linux for a variety of
different reasons and ecoysystems and are probably disagree that OSx and
Linux never crashes.
In fact its statistically impossible to claim so and data would validate
the same.
https://www.google.com/search?q=Linux+crashed&sourceid=ie7&rls=com.microsoft:en-US:IE-Address&ie=&oe=
The Linux kernel they released, where they put webcam drivers
in the kernel for the first time, that crashed.

I don't think my MacOSX machine ever crashed. No "panic" seen there.
But since I only ran one version of MacOSX on the box, and
didn't steadily upgrade, I can't say what the progression of
their OSes was like. My machine was a G4 (quad nostril machine).
And that box ran a lot of different kinds of software (Connectix
Virtual PC for example). I used to run Windows on there at the
same time as MacOSX.

Now, if you were to ask me about the Apple OS before MacOSX,
that was "crash and burn city". That used to crash on me
every day while I was using it. And that's because it used
cooperative multitasking. The MacOSX OS is preemptive, and
doesn't rely on the applications playing nice, to be stable.
An application could die, but the kernel continues running,
on MacOSX.

Paul
Todd
2014-04-12 19:20:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by Paul
Post by ...winston
Many people and organizations run OSx and Linux for a variety of
different reasons and ecoysystems and are probably disagree that OSx
and Linux never crashes.
In fact its statistically impossible to claim so and data would
validate the same.
https://www.google.com/search?q=Linux+crashed&sourceid=ie7&rls=com.microsoft:en-US:IE-Address&ie=&oe=
The Linux kernel they released, where they put webcam drivers
in the kernel for the first time, that crashed.
I don't think my MacOSX machine ever crashed. No "panic" seen there.
But since I only ran one version of MacOSX on the box, and
didn't steadily upgrade, I can't say what the progression of
their OSes was like. My machine was a G4 (quad nostril machine).
And that box ran a lot of different kinds of software (Connectix
Virtual PC for example). I used to run Windows on there at the
same time as MacOSX.
Now, if you were to ask me about the Apple OS before MacOSX,
that was "crash and burn city". That used to crash on me
every day while I was using it. And that's because it used
cooperative multitasking. The MacOSX OS is preemptive, and
doesn't rely on the applications playing nice, to be stable.
An application could die, but the kernel continues running,
on MacOSX.
Paul
Hi Paul,

Nothing is perfect. I am the one that reported the
"cut a DVD, scramble your hard drive" problem to Red Hat.
Lost my hard drive twice. Red Hat fixed it. And, oh yes,
two full recoveries from my backups. No shadow garbage,
locked files, registry nonsense, etc.. Yes, I almost had
a heart attack the first time it happened. The second time,
I knew right what to do.

In retrospect, it taught me how to migrate servers with
old RAID controllers that did not work on new motherboards.
(By the way, no M$ driver incompatibility problems with
the new motherboard. No need to do an in place reinstall,
like with M$'s garbage.)

There is no place to even report such an issue to M$.

Where I have had Linux servers and M$ servers in mixed
environments, the fussing with M$ servers is about a
20 to 1 ratio. I was very surprised. Thought it would
only be a 5 to 1 ratio. And I can work on a Linux
server all day and not have to reboot it. Windows servers
are such trash: slow, bug riddled, unstable ... (My gosh,
having to get everyone out of a system to reboot creates
a lot of bad blood between you and the users. Tip: unplug
the Ethernet cable to keep them from trying to sneak back
in before you are done.)

With Linux and what I can tell thought a more round about
route, OSx, bugs can be reported and get fixed. With Red
Hat, I am actually writing directly to a developer. M$
on the other hand: hahahahahahahahohohohoho

So if you come across a problem with a Red Hat server,
you can write a well documented, respectful letter on
Red Hat's bug reporter and you typically get it fixed
in a timely manner. Red Hat even will take bugs from the
"community" (means you didn't pay for support).

M$ on the other hand ...

Oh ya, came across a grounding problem on a SIIG
front panel USB hub where if you didn't ground yourself
before inserting a USB drive and had a static charge
built up on you, everything froze up. But that would
have happened with any operating system.

Typically operator misuse and power outages are
all you have to worry about on Linux servers. Oh,
ya, they boot back up after patches are applied, if
they even require a reboot.

-T
--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
the riddle wrapped in an enigma wrapped
in a couple slices of baloney
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Silver Slimer
2014-04-12 14:46:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by ...winston
Clones, backup images with Windows provided tools or third party clones
and images are, imo, value added and should be required as the price of
admission to computing with any o/s. Free or fee - find one that meets
your needs and use it.
You don't need this crap with other operating systems. The need only
arises in Windows as it is such shit. I have Linux servers running for
years that never ever crash. The first thing you will notice with OSx
or Linux is that you can run them all day and never have to reboot.
Hell, iOS runs ad infinitum without crashing. This is a Windows thing.
OS X crashes all the time you liar. My mother uses it in a very basic way
(browsing, email and photos) and permission problems arise all the time
and the operating system either bugs out to the point that it is unusable
and requires a power off/power on approach. In the case of GNU/Linux, I'
glad your text-only servers run beautifully, but the GNU/Linux desktop is
an absolute mess and it is nearly impossible to even go four hours on such
systems without requiring a restart. You GNU/Linux zealots have been
claiming that the system is infallible and stable since the 90's and
anyone dumb enough to take your word for it and install it noticed very
quickly how awful it actually is. Stop lying and saying that Windows is
worse when the reality is that Windows runs a LOT longer than GNU/Linux
without requiring restarts.
The only reason people buy Windows -- it is utter shit -- is the
availability of off the shelf software. Windows wipes everyone else's
face in it with when it comes to applications.
Yeah, the fact that it's easy to use and allows their hardware to run
properly has nothing to do with it. GNU/Linux NEVER allows people to use
their hardware to their best of their ability and often doesn't even allow
the hardware to sleep/wake. Fucking lying zealot.
Now if you were to modify your comment to those that run Windows, then I
would agree. You have to protect yourself somehow.
If you have to run Windows to get your work done, then you have to. And
you have to protect yourself somehow.
My PC and tablet run without an anti-virus. No problems whatsoever. If
either gets a problem, the operating system allows me to restart from
scratch without reinstalling the operating system. That's already much
better than GNU/Linux and OS X and *without* the need for images. Images
are great for anyone who wants to restart without having to install a
shitload of updates though.
By the way, I can, and do, back up 100% of everything on a weekly basis
with Linux. And I can recover 100% of everything, and have on at least
four occasions. I have done full recoveries from backup. None of this
partial backup, shadow copy ha ha, shit like you get with Windows.
No, you can't. The limitations of GNU/Linux are well known and become
greater with time. Your operating system won't even allow you to safely
update your operating system if you had a proprietary graphics driver
installed. If you're using the decent NVIDIA driver for instance, rather
than the awful open-source one, any of the hundred updates you have in the
course of a month could be the one to take your system down to a state of
disrepair.
I do not even consider Windows to be a "professional" operating system
as it is such shit.
GNU/Linux is so great that despite being free and having hundreds of
distributions to choose from, after twenty years it still doesn't have
more than 2% of the world using it. Immaculate and free and you STILL
can't get the world to use it. Anyone who DID use it extensively such as
myself hates it so profoundly that they would gladly kick your ass if you
ever use the word quality in correlation with anything open-source.
--
Silver Slimer
Todd
2014-04-12 19:38:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by Silver Slimer
OS X crashes all the time you liar.
Did I call you names?

Look at the ratio. When a customer of mine switches
from M$ to OSx, I only hear from them on a social
basis. The difference is dramatic.

And OSx and Linux have gotten a lot better. In my opinion,
they have gotten easier to use than Windows. XP was
pretty easy. Gone down hill from there.

When I loose a customer to OSx, the remark is that they
are so simple to use.

By the way, if you like W7's interface, you will like
KDE's. M$ copied it. KDE was really buggy to start
with -- they have cleaned it up -- you would have felt
right at home.
Post by Silver Slimer
Yeah, the fact that it's easy to use and allows their hardware to run
properly has nothing to do with it. GNU/Linux NEVER allows people to use
their hardware to their best of their ability and often doesn't even allow
the hardware to sleep/wake. Fucking lying zealot.
Did I call you any names?

Linux sleeps just fine. I see little issues come through
on it all the time.

Had to dig a battery (lots of screws and no quick release)
out of a Ladies Dell laptop to reset her crashed BIOS so
she could boot back into Frankenstein. No quick release
on the battery is really stupid on Windows 8. (I had
set her to do a real shutdown, but F8.1 over road me
and put her back on quick boot.)
Post by Silver Slimer
My PC and tablet run without an anti-virus. No problems whatsoever.
uh oh. Most of the time you don't even know. At
least get yourself a free anti virus. Avira is a
good one. The rest of the free ones are not so good.
Post by Silver Slimer
If
either gets a problem, the operating system allows me to restart from
scratch without reinstalling the operating system.
The other folks don't even need that.
Post by Silver Slimer
That's already much
better than GNU/Linux and OS X and *without* the need for images. Images
are great for anyone who wants to restart without having to install a
shitload of updates though.
You kind of have to do that with Window 8.
Post by Silver Slimer
By the way, I can, and do, back up 100% of everything on a weekly basis
with Linux. And I can recover 100% of everything, and have on at least
four occasions. I have done full recoveries from backup. None of this
partial backup, shadow copy ha ha, shit like you get with Windows.
No, you can't.
Have done it several times. Used it to upgrade old RAID controller
to new servers whose motherboards do support the interface.
Post by Silver Slimer
The limitations of GNU/Linux are well known and become
greater with time. Your operating system won't even allow you to safely
update your operating system if you had a proprietary graphics driver
installed. If you're using the decent NVIDIA driver for instance, rather
than the awful open-source one, any of the hundred updates you have in the
course of a month could be the one to take your system down to a state of
disrepair.
Never seen it happen. And I love and use NVIDIA cards. You simply
use the drivers from EPEL. They are always up to date.
Post by Silver Slimer
I do not even consider Windows to be a "professional" operating system
as it is such shit.
GNU/Linux is so great that despite being free and having hundreds of
distributions to choose from, after twenty years it still doesn't have
more than 2% of the world using it. Immaculate and free and you STILL
can't get the world to use it. Anyone who DID use it extensively such as
myself hates it so profoundly that they would gladly kick your ass if you
ever use the word quality in correlation with anything open-source.
Do not see what you are taking about. 15 years ago, maybe.
The pace of development is mind boggling. Maybe you
should have asked for help? There are a lot of great guys
on the Linux groups, as there are here. You could have
also bought a subscription.

-T
--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
the riddle wrapped in an enigma wrapped
in a couple slices of baloney
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Silver Slimer
2014-04-12 21:11:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by Todd
Post by Silver Slimer
OS X crashes all the time you liar.
Did I call you names?
When somebody spouts such blatant lies as you do, is there any word other
than "liar" to call you? I call a spade a spade and don't hold back from
calling you out on your bullshit just because you have "feelings."
Post by Todd
And OSx and Linux have gotten a lot better. In my opinion,
they have gotten easier to use than Windows. XP was pretty easy. Gone
down hill from there.
Yeah, Windows 7 and Vista were incredibly complicated to use. I mean,
anyone who used Windows 95, 98, 2000, ME and XP would be incredibly lost
in Vista and 7's cryptic interface. *rolls eyes*
Post by Todd
When I loose a customer to OSx, the remark is that they are so simple to
use.
Until they face permission problems and the dreaded beach ball and wonder
what the fuck is up.
Post by Todd
By the way, if you like W7's interface, you will like KDE's. M$ copied
it. KDE was really buggy to start with -- they have cleaned it up --
you would have felt right at home.
Is there a single thing you DON'T lie about? Who copied who first? Was it
Windows 95 or KDE which used the Start button first? Was it KDE or Windows
95 which had application menus load up after pressing that Start button?
Was it Windows 95 or KDE which had a taskbar first? By the way, I've used
GNU/Linux. I've also followed Stallman around and continue to do so to
this day. I even used desktops which had not a single line of proprietary
code. I doubt even YOU did that. KDE fucked up my data so damned often
that your speaking of it in a positive light absolutely repels me. I'd
love for you to point out WHAT Microsoft copied from KDE and PROVE it.
Until then, you're a GNU/Liar.
Post by Todd
Post by Silver Slimer
Yeah, the fact that it's easy to use and allows their hardware to run
properly has nothing to do with it. GNU/Linux NEVER allows people to
use their hardware to their best of their ability and often doesn't
even allow the hardware to sleep/wake. Fucking lying zealot.
Did I call you any names?
You lie therefore you are a liar.
Post by Todd
Linux sleeps just fine. I see little issues come through on it all the
time.
Yet another lie. I did a simple search for linux sleep problem in Bing. I
got 2,740,000 results. The Linux kernel has KNOWN issues with ACPI and the
implementation has been called utter shit by kernel developers.
Post by Todd
Had to dig a battery (lots of screws and no quick release)
out of a Ladies Dell laptop to reset her crashed BIOS so she could boot
back into Frankenstein. No quick release on the battery is really
stupid on Windows 8. (I had set her to do a real shutdown, but F8.1
over road me and put her back on quick boot.)
What does this have to do with ANYTHING? Any Windows 8 setting can be
forced either way. Microsoft prefers certain settings but you can even
allow the operating system to run executable files it doesn't recognize
without any real effort so I question your technical knowledge.
Post by Todd
Post by Silver Slimer
My PC and tablet run without an anti-virus. No problems whatsoever.
uh oh. Most of the time you don't even know. At least get yourself a
free anti virus. Avira is a good one. The rest of the free ones are
not so good.
In the years I ran commercial anti-virus software on my Windows desktops,
I was never once taken down by malware. Besides, Windows 8 HAS a built-in
anti-virus called Windows Defender as well as a sandboxed modern interface
and code in place to prevent people from running unrecognized executable
files. Essentially, it's safer than even your beloved high school
operating system project.
Post by Todd
Post by Silver Slimer
That's already much better than GNU/Linux and OS X and *without* the
need for images. Images are great for anyone who wants to restart
without having to install a shitload of updates though.
You kind of have to do that with Window 8.
Yeah, it's not like EVERY GNU/LINUX DISTRIBUTION under the sun asks you to
install thousands of updates after a fresh installation or anything, any
one of which can render your desktop utterly useless. Who are you trying
to fool?
Post by Todd
Post by Silver Slimer
The limitations of GNU/Linux are well known and become greater with
time. Your operating system won't even allow you to safely update your
operating system if you had a proprietary graphics driver installed. If
you're using the decent NVIDIA driver for instance, rather than the
awful open-source one, any of the hundred updates you have in the
course of a month could be the one to take your system down to a state
of disrepair.
Never seen it happen. And I love and use NVIDIA cards. You simply use
the drivers from EPEL. They are always up to date.
Because you never saw it happen, it must be fiction, right? Meanwhile,
NVIDIA has a section on its website dedicated to troubleshooting COMMON
GNU/Linux problems with their driver. http://us.download.nvidia.com/
XFree86/Linux-x86_64/260.19.36/README/commonproblems.html . Funny enough,
the first one deals with X failing to start. THAT happens very often but
not in the bubble you live in obviously.
Post by Todd
Post by Silver Slimer
GNU/Linux is so great that despite being free and having hundreds of
distributions to choose from, after twenty years it still doesn't have
more than 2% of the world using it. Immaculate and free and you STILL
can't get the world to use it. Anyone who DID use it extensively such
as myself hates it so profoundly that they would gladly kick your ass
if you ever use the word quality in correlation with anything
open-source.
Do not see what you are taking about. 15 years ago, maybe.
The pace of development is mind boggling. Maybe you should have asked
for help? There are a lot of great guys on the Linux groups, as there
are here. You could have also bought a subscription.
That's absolutely hilarious. Anyone asking for help with GNU/Linux issues
is usually confronted with a bunch of insults from basement dwellers who
simply say "never happened to me, must be you" and no help whatsoever.
EVERY SINGLE WINDOWS FORUM is a lot more helpful than all GNU/Linux forums
put together. Not only are people fed up with the insults and lies of GNU/
Linux liars such as yourself but DEVELOPERS are sick of how they get
treated like shit by the community and other developers for helping out,
FREELY I may add, with the ongoing high school project known as GNU/Linux.
Just look at the number of abandoned projects in the GNU/Linux ecosystem.
Many of those developers left simply because zealots like yourself made
demands and insulted people who produced something half-decent for the
operating system rather than thanking them or donating money. Miguel De
Icaza, the former head of development of GNOME left and decided to never
look back at GNU/Linux at all. The only thing your "operating system" is
good for is making people hate it entirely.
--
Silver Slimer
Todd
2014-04-12 21:47:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by Silver Slimer
Post by Todd
Post by Silver Slimer
OS X crashes all the time you liar.
Did I call you names?
When somebody spouts such blatant lies as you do, is there any word other
than "liar" to call you? I call a spade a spade and don't hold back from
calling you out on your bullshit just because you have "feelings."
Post by Todd
And OSx and Linux have gotten a lot better. In my opinion,
they have gotten easier to use than Windows. XP was pretty easy. Gone
down hill from there.
Yeah, Windows 7 and Vista were incredibly complicated to use. I mean,
anyone who used Windows 95, 98, 2000, ME and XP would be incredibly lost
in Vista and 7's cryptic interface. *rolls eyes*
Post by Todd
When I loose a customer to OSx, the remark is that they are so simple to
use.
Until they face permission problems and the dreaded beach ball and wonder
what the fuck is up.
Post by Todd
By the way, if you like W7's interface, you will like KDE's. M$ copied
it. KDE was really buggy to start with -- they have cleaned it up --
you would have felt right at home.
Is there a single thing you DON'T lie about? Who copied who first? Was it
Windows 95 or KDE which used the Start button first? Was it KDE or Windows
95 which had application menus load up after pressing that Start button?
Was it Windows 95 or KDE which had a taskbar first? By the way, I've used
GNU/Linux. I've also followed Stallman around and continue to do so to
this day. I even used desktops which had not a single line of proprietary
code. I doubt even YOU did that. KDE fucked up my data so damned often
that your speaking of it in a positive light absolutely repels me. I'd
love for you to point out WHAT Microsoft copied from KDE and PROVE it.
Until then, you're a GNU/Liar.
Post by Todd
Post by Silver Slimer
Yeah, the fact that it's easy to use and allows their hardware to run
properly has nothing to do with it. GNU/Linux NEVER allows people to
use their hardware to their best of their ability and often doesn't
even allow the hardware to sleep/wake. Fucking lying zealot.
Did I call you any names?
You lie therefore you are a liar.
Post by Todd
Linux sleeps just fine. I see little issues come through on it all the
time.
Yet another lie. I did a simple search for linux sleep problem in Bing. I
got 2,740,000 results. The Linux kernel has KNOWN issues with ACPI and the
implementation has been called utter shit by kernel developers.
Post by Todd
Had to dig a battery (lots of screws and no quick release)
out of a Ladies Dell laptop to reset her crashed BIOS so she could boot
back into Frankenstein. No quick release on the battery is really
stupid on Windows 8. (I had set her to do a real shutdown, but F8.1
over road me and put her back on quick boot.)
What does this have to do with ANYTHING? Any Windows 8 setting can be
forced either way. Microsoft prefers certain settings but you can even
allow the operating system to run executable files it doesn't recognize
without any real effort so I question your technical knowledge.
Post by Todd
Post by Silver Slimer
My PC and tablet run without an anti-virus. No problems whatsoever.
uh oh. Most of the time you don't even know. At least get yourself a
free anti virus. Avira is a good one. The rest of the free ones are
not so good.
In the years I ran commercial anti-virus software on my Windows desktops,
I was never once taken down by malware. Besides, Windows 8 HAS a built-in
anti-virus called Windows Defender as well as a sandboxed modern interface
and code in place to prevent people from running unrecognized executable
files. Essentially, it's safer than even your beloved high school
operating system project.
Post by Todd
Post by Silver Slimer
That's already much better than GNU/Linux and OS X and *without* the
need for images. Images are great for anyone who wants to restart
without having to install a shitload of updates though.
You kind of have to do that with Window 8.
Yeah, it's not like EVERY GNU/LINUX DISTRIBUTION under the sun asks you to
install thousands of updates after a fresh installation or anything, any
one of which can render your desktop utterly useless. Who are you trying
to fool?
Post by Todd
Post by Silver Slimer
The limitations of GNU/Linux are well known and become greater with
time. Your operating system won't even allow you to safely update your
operating system if you had a proprietary graphics driver installed. If
you're using the decent NVIDIA driver for instance, rather than the
awful open-source one, any of the hundred updates you have in the
course of a month could be the one to take your system down to a state
of disrepair.
Never seen it happen. And I love and use NVIDIA cards. You simply use
the drivers from EPEL. They are always up to date.
Because you never saw it happen, it must be fiction, right? Meanwhile,
NVIDIA has a section on its website dedicated to troubleshooting COMMON
GNU/Linux problems with their driver. http://us.download.nvidia.com/
XFree86/Linux-x86_64/260.19.36/README/commonproblems.html . Funny enough,
the first one deals with X failing to start. THAT happens very often but
not in the bubble you live in obviously.
Post by Todd
Post by Silver Slimer
GNU/Linux is so great that despite being free and having hundreds of
distributions to choose from, after twenty years it still doesn't have
more than 2% of the world using it. Immaculate and free and you STILL
can't get the world to use it. Anyone who DID use it extensively such
as myself hates it so profoundly that they would gladly kick your ass
if you ever use the word quality in correlation with anything
open-source.
Do not see what you are taking about. 15 years ago, maybe.
The pace of development is mind boggling. Maybe you should have asked
for help? There are a lot of great guys on the Linux groups, as there
are here. You could have also bought a subscription.
That's absolutely hilarious. Anyone asking for help with GNU/Linux issues
is usually confronted with a bunch of insults from basement dwellers who
simply say "never happened to me, must be you" and no help whatsoever.
EVERY SINGLE WINDOWS FORUM is a lot more helpful than all GNU/Linux forums
put together. Not only are people fed up with the insults and lies of GNU/
Linux liars such as yourself but DEVELOPERS are sick of how they get
treated like shit by the community and other developers for helping out,
FREELY I may add, with the ongoing high school project known as GNU/Linux.
Just look at the number of abandoned projects in the GNU/Linux ecosystem.
Many of those developers left simply because zealots like yourself made
demands and insulted people who produced something half-decent for the
operating system rather than thanking them or donating money. Miguel De
Icaza, the former head of development of GNOME left and decided to never
look back at GNU/Linux at all. The only thing your "operating system" is
good for is making people hate it entirely.
Hi Silver,

Try being a gentleman. It won't hurt. Well, maybe at first.
Not everything you don't agree with or don't understand is
wrong.

"It ain't what you don't know that gets you into
trouble. It's what you know for sure that just
ain't so."

--Mark Twain

-T
--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
the riddle wrapped in an enigma wrapped
in a couple slices of baloney
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Silver Slimer
2014-04-12 21:50:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by Todd
Hi Silver,
Try being a gentleman. It won't hurt. Well, maybe at first.
Not everything you don't agree with or don't understand is wrong.
I tend not to be very friendly to propagandist liars.
--
Silver Slimer
Todd
2014-04-12 22:15:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by Silver Slimer
Post by Todd
Hi Silver,
Try being a gentleman. It won't hurt. Well, maybe at first.
Not everything you don't agree with or don't understand is wrong.
I tend not to be very friendly to propagandist liars.
Hi Silver,

I am relating my technical experience. I don't hold
back to protect my pet technology. I ride M$ so
hard for a reason. Believe me, I pull no punches
on the Linux side either. There is just a lot less
to punch at.

You on the other hand are a being a bit of a tech
evangelist. And definitely accusing the Open Source
community of your own behavour.

"Get your facts first, then you can distort them
as you please."

― Mark Twain

-T
--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
the riddle wrapped in an enigma wrapped
in a couple slices of baloney
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Todd
2014-04-12 22:09:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by Silver Slimer
That's absolutely hilarious. Anyone asking for help with GNU/Linux issues
is usually confronted with a bunch of insults from basement dwellers who
simply say "never happened to me, must be you" and no help whatsoever.
EVERY SINGLE WINDOWS FORUM is a lot more helpful than all GNU/Linux forums
put together. Not only are people fed up with the insults and lies of GNU/
Linux liars such as yourself but DEVELOPERS are sick of how they get
treated like shit by the community and other developers for helping out,
FREELY I may add, with the ongoing high school project known as GNU/Linux.
Just look at the number of abandoned projects in the GNU/Linux ecosystem.
Many of those developers left simply because zealots like yourself made
demands and insulted people who produced something half-decent for the
operating system rather than thanking them or donating money. Miguel De
Icaza, the former head of development of GNOME left and decided to never
look back at GNU/Linux at all. The only thing your "operating system" is
good for is making people hate it entirely.
Hi Silver,

Okay, I have to comment (can't resist). I have had what
you describe happen to me too. Once had a feminist go
off on me about Samba. I showed that to all my friends
and we all laughed our asses off. You develop a think skin.

But, this kind of thing happens on all groups. Windows
included. You have been doing it to me.

-T
--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
the riddle wrapped in an enigma wrapped
in a couple slices of baloney
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Ron
2014-04-12 23:52:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by Todd
Post by Silver Slimer
My PC and tablet run without an anti-virus. No problems whatsoever.
uh oh. Most of the time you don't even know. At
least get yourself a free anti virus. Avira is a
good one. The rest of the free ones are not so good.
That is complete BS.

Avast, AVG, Bitdefender, Panda Cloud, and Comodo are all just as good as
Avira if not better.
Todd
2014-04-13 02:21:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ron
Post by Todd
Post by Silver Slimer
My PC and tablet run without an anti-virus. No problems whatsoever.
uh oh. Most of the time you don't even know. At
least get yourself a free anti virus. Avira is a
good one. The rest of the free ones are not so good.
That is complete BS.
Avast, AVG, Bitdefender, Panda Cloud, and Comodo are all just as good as
Avira if not better.
Hi Ron,

In your personal experience? Or do you have some test
data to back that up?

http://www.av-comparatives.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/avc_sum_201312_en.pdf

Have fun. Check out page 6.

-T
--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
the riddle wrapped in an enigma wrapped
in a couple slices of baloney
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Ron
2014-04-13 03:50:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by Todd
Post by Ron
Post by Todd
Post by Silver Slimer
My PC and tablet run without an anti-virus. No problems whatsoever.
uh oh. Most of the time you don't even know. At
least get yourself a free anti virus. Avira is a
good one. The rest of the free ones are not so good.
That is complete BS.
Avast, AVG, Bitdefender, Panda Cloud, and Comodo are all just as good as
Avira if not better.
Hi Ron,
In your personal experience? Or do you have some test
data to back that up?
http://www.av-comparatives.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/avc_sum_201312_en.pdf
Have fun. Check out page 6.
http://www.av-test.org/en/tests/home-user/windows-8/novdec-2013/
Todd
2014-04-13 03:56:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ron
Post by Todd
Post by Ron
Post by Todd
Post by Silver Slimer
My PC and tablet run without an anti-virus. No problems whatsoever.
uh oh. Most of the time you don't even know. At
least get yourself a free anti virus. Avira is a
good one. The rest of the free ones are not so good.
That is complete BS.
Avast, AVG, Bitdefender, Panda Cloud, and Comodo are all just as good as
Avira if not better.
Hi Ron,
In your personal experience? Or do you have some test
data to back that up?
http://www.av-comparatives.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/avc_sum_201312_en.pdf
Have fun. Check out page 6.
http://www.av-test.org/en/tests/home-user/windows-8/novdec-2013/
Hi Ron,

Great link. Avira did pretty well. AVG, not so
much. Kaspersky and Bit Defender kicked ass.
Bit Defender is not free by the way. ESET pretty
much a good second.

Avira (free) did better than ESET (pay).

Thank you for sharing.

-T
--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
the riddle wrapped in an enigma wrapped
in a couple slices of baloney
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Ron
2014-04-13 04:02:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by Todd
Post by Ron
Post by Todd
Post by Ron
Post by Todd
Post by Silver Slimer
My PC and tablet run without an anti-virus. No problems whatsoever.
uh oh. Most of the time you don't even know. At
least get yourself a free anti virus. Avira is a
good one. The rest of the free ones are not so good.
That is complete BS.
Avast, AVG, Bitdefender, Panda Cloud, and Comodo are all just as good as
Avira if not better.
Hi Ron,
In your personal experience? Or do you have some test
data to back that up?
http://www.av-comparatives.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/avc_sum_201312_en.pdf
Have fun. Check out page 6.
http://www.av-test.org/en/tests/home-user/windows-8/novdec-2013/
Hi Ron,
Great link. Avira did pretty well. AVG, not so
much. Kaspersky and Bit Defender kicked ass.
Bit Defender is not free by the way. ESET pretty
much a good second.
Avira (free) did better than ESET (pay).
Thank you for sharing.
http://www.bitdefender.com.au/solutions/free.html
Todd
2014-04-13 04:06:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ron
Post by Todd
Post by Ron
Post by Todd
Post by Ron
Post by Todd
Post by Silver Slimer
My PC and tablet run without an anti-virus. No problems whatsoever.
uh oh. Most of the time you don't even know. At
least get yourself a free anti virus. Avira is a
good one. The rest of the free ones are not so good.
That is complete BS.
Avast, AVG, Bitdefender, Panda Cloud, and Comodo are all just as good as
Avira if not better.
Hi Ron,
In your personal experience? Or do you have some test
data to back that up?
http://www.av-comparatives.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/avc_sum_201312_en.pdf
Have fun. Check out page 6.
http://www.av-test.org/en/tests/home-user/windows-8/novdec-2013/
Hi Ron,
Great link. Avira did pretty well. AVG, not so
much. Kaspersky and Bit Defender kicked ass.
Bit Defender is not free by the way. ESET pretty
much a good second.
Avira (free) did better than ESET (pay).
Thank you for sharing.
http://www.bitdefender.com.au/solutions/free.html
Hi Ron,

I stand corrected. The pay version is skewed up on
one of my suppliers.

Is the free version for home use only? AVG and
Avira are that way, unless something has changed.

Drives me nuts when I have to tell businesses
that they are suppose to pay for AVG.

-T
--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
the riddle wrapped in an enigma wrapped
in a couple slices of baloney
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Ron
2014-04-13 04:21:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by Todd
Post by Ron
Post by Todd
Post by Ron
Post by Todd
Post by Ron
Post by Todd
Post by Silver Slimer
My PC and tablet run without an anti-virus. No problems whatsoever.
uh oh. Most of the time you don't even know. At
least get yourself a free anti virus. Avira is a
good one. The rest of the free ones are not so good.
That is complete BS.
Avast, AVG, Bitdefender, Panda Cloud, and Comodo are all just as good as
Avira if not better.
Hi Ron,
In your personal experience? Or do you have some test
data to back that up?
http://www.av-comparatives.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/avc_sum_201312_en.pdf
Have fun. Check out page 6.
http://www.av-test.org/en/tests/home-user/windows-8/novdec-2013/
Hi Ron,
Great link. Avira did pretty well. AVG, not so
much. Kaspersky and Bit Defender kicked ass.
Bit Defender is not free by the way. ESET pretty
much a good second.
Avira (free) did better than ESET (pay).
Thank you for sharing.
http://www.bitdefender.com.au/solutions/free.html
Hi Ron,
I stand corrected. The pay version is skewed up on
one of my suppliers.
Is the free version for home use only? AVG and
Avira are that way, unless something has changed.
Drives me nuts when I have to tell businesses
that they are suppose to pay for AVG.
-T
I only know that all of the ones that I mentioned are free for home use.

BTW, for your home users/customers I would also recommend WOT (Web Of
Trust). If you aren't familiar with it, it gives a green, yellow, and
red circle next to websites when you do a search.

You can explain it them like it's a traffic light. Green go, yellow
proceed with caution, red STOP - don't click on the link. It will also
"block" red sites and ask if you want to continue or go back.

https://www.mywot.com/

Bitdefender has a similar product called Traffic Light which I've yet to
test.

http://www.bitdefender.com/solutions/trafficlight.html
Todd
2014-04-13 05:41:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ron
Post by Todd
Post by Ron
Post by Todd
Post by Ron
Post by Todd
Post by Ron
Post by Todd
Post by Silver Slimer
My PC and tablet run without an anti-virus. No problems whatsoever.
uh oh. Most of the time you don't even know. At
least get yourself a free anti virus. Avira is a
good one. The rest of the free ones are not so good.
That is complete BS.
Avast, AVG, Bitdefender, Panda Cloud, and Comodo are all just as good as
Avira if not better.
Hi Ron,
In your personal experience? Or do you have some test
data to back that up?
http://www.av-comparatives.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/avc_sum_201312_en.pdf
Have fun. Check out page 6.
http://www.av-test.org/en/tests/home-user/windows-8/novdec-2013/
Hi Ron,
Great link. Avira did pretty well. AVG, not so
much. Kaspersky and Bit Defender kicked ass.
Bit Defender is not free by the way. ESET pretty
much a good second.
Avira (free) did better than ESET (pay).
Thank you for sharing.
http://www.bitdefender.com.au/solutions/free.html
Hi Ron,
I stand corrected. The pay version is skewed up on
one of my suppliers.
Is the free version for home use only? AVG and
Avira are that way, unless something has changed.
Drives me nuts when I have to tell businesses
that they are suppose to pay for AVG.
-T
I only know that all of the ones that I mentioned are free for home use.
BTW, for your home users/customers I would also recommend WOT (Web Of
Trust). If you aren't familiar with it, it gives a green, yellow, and
red circle next to websites when you do a search.
You can explain it them like it's a traffic light. Green go, yellow
proceed with caution, red STOP - don't click on the link. It will also
"block" red sites and ask if you want to continue or go back.
https://www.mywot.com/
Bitdefender has a similar product called Traffic Light which I've yet to
test.
http://www.bitdefender.com/solutions/trafficlight.html
Hi Ron,

Thank you!

I have been trusting Firefox's and Kaspersky's
site filters. (My office is Red Hat, so not an
issue and I don't let my Windows VM's surf.)

I tell my customers who are worried about
security and can't divorce themselves from Windows
to use a Linux Live CD (not USB as they have
"persistence").

And, I always tell them they can never be absolutely
secure, so don't test the envelope. And, that they still
have to use their own common sense.

-T

-T
--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
the riddle wrapped in an enigma wrapped
in a couple slices of baloney
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Todd
2014-04-12 20:01:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by Silver Slimer
GNU/Linux is so great that despite being free and having hundreds of
distributions to choose from, after twenty years it still doesn't have
more than 2% of the world using it.
And yet I can sit down at any of those hundreds of distributions
and work on them. They are all essentially the same. Go for
Ubuntu or Fedora. Fedora is the security hardened one (my
favorite).

The reason for the lack of adoption is the lack of off the
shelf applications. I think you missed me saying that
several times.

Where off the shelf software is not an issue, such
as web servers, Windows is playing catch up.
--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
the riddle wrapped in an enigma wrapped
in a couple slices of baloney
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Paul
2014-04-12 22:57:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by Silver Slimer
OS X crashes all the time you liar. My mother uses it in a very basic way
(browsing, email and photos) and permission problems arise all the time
and the operating system either bugs out to the point that it is unusable
and requires a power off/power on approach. In the case of GNU/Linux, I'
glad your text-only servers run beautifully, but the GNU/Linux desktop is
an absolute mess and it is nearly impossible to even go four hours on such
systems without requiring a restart. You GNU/Linux zealots have been
claiming that the system is infallible and stable since the 90's and
anyone dumb enough to take your word for it and install it noticed very
quickly how awful it actually is. Stop lying and saying that Windows is
worse when the reality is that Windows runs a LOT longer than GNU/Linux
without requiring restarts.
As a technician, you should test your mothers Mac hardware with a second OS.

On my G4 running MacOSX, it will also boot the PowerPC version of
Ubuntu. So that would be an example of a second OS I could run.

You can then compare machine stability, using different OSes. If
both OSes are unstable, it's the hardware which is at fault. And
then you can trace down, which subsystem is at fault. (By correlating
which activities in the alternate OS, cause a crash.)

I first used that technique on my 440BX based motherboard. Originally,
I'd assumed "Windows sucks", when that platform would fall over on me.
I blamed some part of Windows design for all the grief.

About a year later, I happened to pop in one of my first Linux
LiveCDs that I'd downloaded. And that crashed in around 30 seconds.
(Basically, as soon as the mouse cursor was made to zip across the screen.)
I was able to trace down what hardware was at fault (motherboard
design flaw). Some of the 440BX motherboards in that era, had
the "Photoshop bug", named because the hardware design issue tended
to show up while using Photoshop. The hardware design issue in that
case, is the Vtt termination regulator needs a larger capacitor on it,
to sink or source 2 amps of terminator current, on long runs of 1's or
0's on the memory bus. Sitting idle in the desktop, didn't tend to
make enough of those sequences, for the box to tip over. But run
Photoshop, and look out.

There's more to testing computers, than just cursing at them.

Paul
Todd
2014-04-13 02:30:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by Paul
Post by Silver Slimer
OS X crashes all the time you liar. My mother uses it in a very basic
way (browsing, email and photos) and permission problems arise all the
time and the operating system either bugs out to the point that it is
unusable and requires a power off/power on approach. In the case of
GNU/Linux, I' glad your text-only servers run beautifully, but the
GNU/Linux desktop is an absolute mess and it is nearly impossible to
even go four hours on such systems without requiring a restart. You
GNU/Linux zealots have been claiming that the system is infallible and
stable since the 90's and anyone dumb enough to take your word for it
and install it noticed very quickly how awful it actually is. Stop
lying and saying that Windows is worse when the reality is that
Windows runs a LOT longer than GNU/Linux without requiring restarts.
As a technician, you should test your mothers Mac hardware with a second OS.
On my G4 running MacOSX, it will also boot the PowerPC version of
Ubuntu. So that would be an example of a second OS I could run.
You can then compare machine stability, using different OSes. If
both OSes are unstable, it's the hardware which is at fault. And
then you can trace down, which subsystem is at fault. (By correlating
which activities in the alternate OS, cause a crash.)
I first used that technique on my 440BX based motherboard. Originally,
I'd assumed "Windows sucks", when that platform would fall over on me.
I blamed some part of Windows design for all the grief.
About a year later, I happened to pop in one of my first Linux
LiveCDs that I'd downloaded. And that crashed in around 30 seconds.
(Basically, as soon as the mouse cursor was made to zip across the screen.)
I was able to trace down what hardware was at fault (motherboard
design flaw). Some of the 440BX motherboards in that era, had
the "Photoshop bug", named because the hardware design issue tended
to show up while using Photoshop. The hardware design issue in that
case, is the Vtt termination regulator needs a larger capacitor on it,
to sink or source 2 amps of terminator current, on long runs of 1's or
0's on the memory bus. Sitting idle in the desktop, didn't tend to
make enough of those sequences, for the box to tip over. But run
Photoshop, and look out.
There's more to testing computers, than just cursing at them.
Paul
Hi Paul,

Some of the motherboards out there now days are so
gosh-awful-cheap, I can not see how they run anything
at all!

Apple controls their hardware very tightly. I have
only seen one bad apple (I cracked pun) in 19 years
of doing this. My live CD has actually broken
the cheap-assed DVD players in new el-cheap-o HP
computers.

You give great advice. I love my Live CD as they
help me isolate hardware from software problems.

Had a guy last week with two XP computers and no
anti virus. Both were virused to the gills.

On one, every time I booted off the Live CD I got
something different. So I condemned it. On the
second, Live CD worked beautifully. So I installed
Avira and left him doing a deep virus scan (that is
all he could afford).

Oh and I agree about the cursing. Accusing your
computer's parents of not being married gets you
no where. Plus they have long memories and are very
vindictive. :-)

-T
--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
the riddle wrapped in an enigma wrapped
in a couple slices of baloney
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Blue
2014-04-12 23:56:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by Silver Slimer
GNU/Linux is so great that despite being free and having hundreds of
distributions to choose from, after twenty years it still doesn't have
more than 2% of the world using it.
Which means 28000000 users. It's common knowledge that it's 5% which
works out to 70000000.

http://www.w3schools.com/browsers/browsers_os.asp

Now when you add Android ...
--
Blue
lew
2014-04-12 17:10:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by Todd
Post by ...winston
Post by Todd
Post by ...winston
Or....invest in imaging software (Acronis 2014, Symantec System Recovery
2013, Easus ToDo Backup Home)
Hi Winston,
This might not be useful for those that don't have a foot
in both the Windows and Linux world, but I do love
CloneZilla for making images and transferring to new
http://www.clonezilla.org/
http://gparted.sourceforge.net/livecd.php
gparted comes on the Fedora Xfce Live CD. (I asked for it
to be included. Try getting that customer service from M$!)
https://spins.fedoraproject.org/xfce/#downloads
And they are all Open Source and free.
I also have Live USB sticks of the above. Run so much
faster than a Live CD. Plus, lately with the of some
CD players and customers with new computers and CABDs
(Cheap Ass Bastard Disease) I have been finding the Live
CD breaking the old drives and the cheap ass new drives.
(You paid how much for that piece of s***? $300.00?)
-T
p.s. one of my XP virtual machines corrupted on me on Wednesday.
Today, I restored its image from Linux backup. Took about
fifteen minutes. It is the same idea as your advice to
make a clone.
Clones, backup images with Windows provided tools or third party clones
and images are, imo, value added and should be required as the price of
admission to computing with any o/s. Free or fee - find one that meets
your needs and use it.
Hi Winston,
You don't need this crap with other operating systems. The
need only arises in Windows as it is such shit. I have Linux
servers running for years that never ever crash. The first
thing you will notice with OSx or Linux is that you can run
them all day and never have to reboot. Hell, iOS runs ad infinitum
without crashing. This is a Windows thing.
The only reason people buy Windows -- it is utter shit -- is
the availability of off the shelf software. Windows wipes everyone
else's face in it with when it comes to applications.
Now if you were to modify your comment to those that run Windows,
then I would agree. You have to protect yourself somehow.
If you have to run Windows to get your work done, then you
have to. And you have to protect yourself somehow.
By the way, I can, and do, back up 100% of everything on
a weekly basis with Linux. And I can recover 100% of
everything, and have on at least four occasions. I have
done full recoveries from backup. None of this partial
backup, shadow copy ha ha, shit like you get with Windows.
I do not even consider Windows to be a "professional" operating
system as it is such shit.
"The idea that no gentleman ever swears is all wrong. He
can swear and still be a gentleman if he does it in a nice
and benevolent and affectionate way."
--Mark Twain - Private and Public Morals speech, 1906
-T
By the way. Linux journals out bad spots on your hard drive.
You never even know you have them, unless you look at your
error logs. Windows on the other hand ... (see my "such
shit" remarks above.)
I still haven't gotten my linux NOT TO CRASH. I haven't been able
to finish configuring the desktop before it crashes. It is better
now after a few updates, but it still took 3 tries to configure the
prinnter. The last time tried to setup the audio & it crashed twice.

Will wait another week to try again to have a working linux. Oh yes,
I've had/used linux since the slackware was available; have tried
redhat and now like suse.
Silver Slimer
2014-04-12 18:12:58 UTC
Permalink
I still haven't gotten my linux NOT TO CRASH. I haven't been able to
finish configuring the desktop before it crashes. It is better now
after a few updates, but it still took 3 tries to configure the
prinnter. The last time tried to setup the audio & it crashed twice.
GNU/Linux zealots will call you a liar for even suggesting that anything
within their ecosystem is anything less than perfect and rock-solid.
Will wait another week to try again to have a working linux. Oh yes,
I've had/used linux since the slackware was available; have tried redhat
and now like suse.
Most experienced and OBJECTIVE people who have used GNU/Linux will tell
you that it's anything but an ideal experience. For these people to be in
such powerful denial and to spread terrible lies about GNU/Linux being
good is a gigantic disservice to the technological world.
--
Silver Slimer
Todd
2014-04-12 20:16:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by Silver Slimer
I still haven't gotten my linux NOT TO CRASH. I haven't been able to
finish configuring the desktop before it crashes. It is better now
after a few updates, but it still took 3 tries to configure the
prinnter. The last time tried to setup the audio & it crashed twice.
GNU/Linux zealots will call you a liar for even suggesting that anything
within their ecosystem is anything less than perfect and rock-solid.
Will wait another week to try again to have a working linux. Oh yes,
I've had/used linux since the slackware was available; have tried redhat
and now like suse.
Most experienced and OBJECTIVE people who have used GNU/Linux will tell
you that it's anything but an ideal experience. For these people to be in
such powerful denial and to spread terrible lies about GNU/Linux being
good is a gigantic disservice to the technological world.
Hi Silver,

You are mistaking peoples experience for zealotry. And, yes
there are evangelists on both sides -- they are annoying.
I find more of them in the Windows world than the Linux
world.

What you will mainly find with Linux techs is that they
have to live in both worlds. You usually don't find that
in the Windows world.

So when you speak with a Linux tech (like me), they will
have a lot experience with both. And usually a lot of
unflattering remarks about Windows (as you have seen from
me).

Windows tech usually don't know how the other side lives.
When they hear from the other side(s), it is a little
jarring to them. They live quite insulated technical
lives.

Nothing is perfect. But Windows quality could sure use some
real improvement. With Linux, there a vehicles to get problems
fixed. Red Hat fixed the "cut a DVD, scramble your hard drive"
problem for me. (If I was a zealot, I would not have told
you about that.) With Windows ...

I think Frankenstein 8 may be worse than Vista.

-T
--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
the riddle wrapped in an enigma wrapped
in a couple slices of baloney
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Silver Slimer
2014-04-12 21:15:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by Todd
Nothing is perfect. But Windows quality could sure use some
real improvement. With Linux, there a vehicles to get problems fixed.
Red Hat fixed the "cut a DVD, scramble your hard drive"
problem for me. (If I was a zealot, I would not have told you about
that.) With Windows ...
I beta-tested Windows Vista. It was shit as a beta and USABLE at best as a
final. I beta-tested Windows 7 as well. As a beta, it was rock-solid as a
final it was the greatest operating system the world has ever seen. I
didn't get to beta-test Windows 8 but used 8, 8.1 and now use the latest
version. NOT ONCE HAS THE OPERATING SYSTEM CRASHED on either my desktop PC
or my tablet and I never restart my tablet. Meanwhile, EVERY SINGLE GNU/
Linux I used had trouble waking from sleep, drained the battery, corrupted
my data and became unusable after an update.
Post by Todd
I think Frankenstein 8 may be worse than Vista.
Try using it for more than thirty seconds first. When you use it in
conjunction with a touch screen, you start to understand why it's
brilliant. Even if you don't, it's absolutely rock-solid.
--
Silver Slimer
Todd
2014-04-12 21:43:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by Silver Slimer
Post by Todd
Nothing is perfect. But Windows quality could sure use some
real improvement. With Linux, there a vehicles to get problems fixed.
Red Hat fixed the "cut a DVD, scramble your hard drive"
problem for me. (If I was a zealot, I would not have told you about
that.) With Windows ...
I beta-tested Windows Vista. It was shit as a beta and USABLE at best as a
final. I beta-tested Windows 7 as well. As a beta, it was rock-solid as a
final it was the greatest operating system the world has ever seen. I
didn't get to beta-test Windows 8 but used 8, 8.1 and now use the latest
version. NOT ONCE HAS THE OPERATING SYSTEM CRASHED on either my desktop PC
or my tablet and I never restart my tablet. Meanwhile, EVERY SINGLE GNU/
Linux I used had trouble waking from sleep, drained the battery, corrupted
my data and became unusable after an update.
I have to fix W7 all the time at customer sites. I find it flaky,
especially when it rolls back all my changes a week later. Very
frustrating. W7 is much more solid that Vista. XP is more solid
than the both.
Post by Silver Slimer
Post by Todd
I think Frankenstein 8 may be worse than Vista.
Try using it for more than thirty seconds first. When you use it in
conjunction with a touch screen, you start to understand why it's
brilliant. Even if you don't, it's absolutely rock-solid.
If you can get your customer past the Frankenstein aspects of
the thing and into their programs, it is pretty much like
W7 only less stable and really weird.
--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
the riddle wrapped in an enigma wrapped
in a couple slices of baloney
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Todd
2014-04-12 20:06:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by lew
I still haven't gotten my linux NOT TO CRASH. I haven't been able
to finish configuring the desktop before it crashes. It is better
now after a few updates, but it still took 3 tries to configure the
prinnter. The last time tried to setup the audio & it crashed twice.
Will wait another week to try again to have a working linux. Oh yes,
I've had/used linux since the slackware was available; have tried
redhat and now like suse.
Hi Lew,

Huh. Something isn't right.

Have you tried to run with the various Live CD's?

Suse and Red Hat are really close to each other.

Try posting your issues over on comp.os.linux.misc.
Lot of great guys over there. (Here too, no one get
their back up.) Maybe I will see you post over there.
Would love to see what is going on.

-T
--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
the riddle wrapped in an enigma wrapped
in a couple slices of baloney
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
lew
2014-04-12 21:39:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by Todd
Post by lew
I still haven't gotten my linux NOT TO CRASH. I haven't been able
to finish configuring the desktop before it crashes. It is better
now after a few updates, but it still took 3 tries to configure the
prinnter. The last time tried to setup the audio & it crashed twice.
Will wait another week to try again to have a working linux. Oh yes,
I've had/used linux since the slackware was available; have tried
redhat and now like suse.
Hi Lew,
Huh. Something isn't right.
Have you tried to run with the various Live CD's?
Suse and Red Hat are really close to each other.
Try posting your issues over on comp.os.linux.misc.
Lot of great guys over there. (Here too, no one get
their back up.) Maybe I will see you post over there.
Would love to see what is going on.
-T
Haven't posted the problem in the linux groups. To me, it is like
the flaky audio impelementations where it may work on a version &
can be inoperable the next. Will wait as there is no urgency & can
use the MacMini to get to my nas running debian or use cryptoterm
on win7.

I have a MacMini where I can still play with a modified version
of FreeBSD as in the "fink" package that I installed. Running "mc"
allows me to see everything on the hdd where Apple doesn't want
anyone to know anything. Too bad I still cannot enlarge the system
font for my aging eyesight.
Todd
2014-04-12 21:45:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by lew
Post by Todd
Post by lew
I still haven't gotten my linux NOT TO CRASH. I haven't been able
to finish configuring the desktop before it crashes. It is better
now after a few updates, but it still took 3 tries to configure the
prinnter. The last time tried to setup the audio & it crashed twice.
Will wait another week to try again to have a working linux. Oh yes,
I've had/used linux since the slackware was available; have tried
redhat and now like suse.
Hi Lew,
Huh. Something isn't right.
Have you tried to run with the various Live CD's?
Suse and Red Hat are really close to each other.
Try posting your issues over on comp.os.linux.misc.
Lot of great guys over there. (Here too, no one get
their back up.) Maybe I will see you post over there.
Would love to see what is going on.
-T
Haven't posted the problem in the linux groups. To me, it is like
the flaky audio impelementations where it may work on a version &
can be inoperable the next. Will wait as there is no urgency & can
use the MacMini to get to my nas running debian or use cryptoterm
on win7.
I have a MacMini where I can still play with a modified version
of FreeBSD as in the "fink" package that I installed. Running "mc"
allows me to see everything on the hdd where Apple doesn't want
anyone to know anything. Too bad I still cannot enlarge the system
font for my aging eyesight.
The reason for the Live CD is that they will tell you
if your hardware or your configuration is bad. And
remember that the technology should work for you, not
the other way around. It is what works for you.

Somewhere I heard there are apps that let you see your
file system in iPad, Android, etc..
--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
the riddle wrapped in an enigma wrapped
in a couple slices of baloney
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Brian Gregory
2014-04-12 22:30:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by Todd
You don't need this crap with other operating systems. The
need only arises in Windows as it is such shit. I have Linux
servers running for years that never ever crash. The first
thing you will notice with OSx or Linux is that you can run
them all day and never have to reboot. Hell, iOS runs ad infinitum
without crashing. This is a Windows thing.
Comparing a Linux server with the average Windows system that has
games/free software/goodness knows what dodgy software installed on and
uninstalled from it weekly is hardly fair.

I know of a Windows server at one place I work that has been running
undisturbed for nearly a whole year.

I'm not denying that Linux is better in many ways when it comes to
reliability but you do need to compare like with like for it to be a
fair comparison.
--
Brian Gregory (in the UK).
To email me please remove all the letter vee from my email address.
Todd
2014-04-13 02:39:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by Brian Gregory
Post by Todd
You don't need this crap with other operating systems. The
need only arises in Windows as it is such shit. I have Linux
servers running for years that never ever crash. The first
thing you will notice with OSx or Linux is that you can run
them all day and never have to reboot. Hell, iOS runs ad infinitum
without crashing. This is a Windows thing.
Comparing a Linux server with the average Windows system that has
games/free software/goodness knows what dodgy software installed on and
uninstalled from it weekly is hardly fair.
I will give you that.

One of the benefits of an "obscure" operating system
is that you can't catch all that gosh awful junkware that is
out there. OSx users are just are careless as Wiodws
users.

My favorite junkware remover. Brings a Windows computer
back to life.

http://thisisudax.org/
Post by Brian Gregory
I know of a Windows server at one place I work that has been running
undisturbed for nearly a whole year.
What version was it? I likes 2003 but things have gone down
hill since Vista Server (2008).

I usually set my Windows servers up to reboot after they
do their backups in the night.

One server, I told the first person who got there to reboot
it in the morning. They didn't. But they did complain
about their reports coming out with four inch letters (no
fooling!). It was hysterical. I am not sure they appreciated
me laughing at it though (they forgave me). So I set them up
to reboot in the night. Problem solved.
Post by Brian Gregory
I'm not denying that Linux is better in many ways when it comes to
reliability but you do need to compare like with like for it to be a
fair comparison.
You have a point. Technically Linux is much better. But
there are virtually no off the shelf applications out
there for it. Same problem with OSx. Don't care much
for OSx, as it puts you into a straight jacket. But,
one must compare apple to apples (pun intended).

-T
--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
the riddle wrapped in an enigma wrapped
in a couple slices of baloney
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Todd
2014-04-13 03:51:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by Todd
Post by Brian Gregory
Comparing a Linux server with the average Windows system that has
games/free software/goodness knows what dodgy software installed on and
uninstalled from it weekly is hardly fair.
I will give you that.
One of the benefits of an "obscure" operating system
is that you can't catch all that gosh awful junkware that is
out there. OSx users are just are careless as Wiodws
users.
My favorite junkware remover. Brings a Windows computer
back to life.
http://thisisudax.org/
You know what. Windows users are typically running
with Admin privileges. On other OS'es, you are prompted to
enter the admin password before installing software.
A design flaw in Windows. And the UAC is just annoying.
--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
the riddle wrapped in an enigma wrapped
in a couple slices of baloney
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Brian Gregory
2014-04-13 22:24:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by Todd
Post by Todd
Post by Brian Gregory
Comparing a Linux server with the average Windows system that has
games/free software/goodness knows what dodgy software installed on and
uninstalled from it weekly is hardly fair.
I will give you that.
One of the benefits of an "obscure" operating system
is that you can't catch all that gosh awful junkware that is
out there. OSx users are just are careless as Wiodws
users.
My favorite junkware remover. Brings a Windows computer
back to life.
http://thisisudax.org/
You know what. Windows users are typically running
with Admin privileges. On other OS'es, you are prompted to
enter the admin password before installing software.
A design flaw in Windows. And the UAC is just annoying.
I generally run as an Admin with UAC on full. I don't find UAC annoying.
Though I admit I might fairly easily click through a UAC prompt without
thinking if I am in a hurry.

I've used JRT before to remove remnants of toolbars and scareware on the
computers I maintain at work. Yes it seems effective. Another of my
favorites is Malwarebytes Antimalware which seems to detect a lot of the
stuff that other software doesn't bother with, perhaps because they feel
that 'only idiots would get infected with that'. However many computers
are regularly used by idiots.
--
Brian Gregory (in the UK).
To email me please remove all the letter vee from my email address.
Todd
2014-04-14 07:56:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by Brian Gregory
Post by Todd
Post by Todd
Post by Brian Gregory
Comparing a Linux server with the average Windows system that has
games/free software/goodness knows what dodgy software installed on and
uninstalled from it weekly is hardly fair.
I will give you that.
One of the benefits of an "obscure" operating system
is that you can't catch all that gosh awful junkware that is
out there. OSx users are just are careless as Wiodws
users.
My favorite junkware remover. Brings a Windows computer
back to life.
http://thisisudax.org/
You know what. Windows users are typically running
with Admin privileges. On other OS'es, you are prompted to
enter the admin password before installing software.
A design flaw in Windows. And the UAC is just annoying.
I generally run as an Admin with UAC on full. I don't find UAC annoying.
Though I admit I might fairly easily click through a UAC prompt without
thinking if I am in a hurry.
I've used JRT before to remove remnants of toolbars and scareware on the
computers I maintain at work. Yes it seems effective. Another of my
favorites is Malwarebytes Antimalware which seems to detect a lot of the
stuff that other software doesn't bother with, perhaps because they feel
that 'only idiots would get infected with that'. However many computers
are regularly used by idiots.
Hi Brian,

Have you seen these?

http://www.techrepublic.com/blog/it-news-digest/microsoft-admits-vista-uac-was-designed-to-annoy-users-and-developers/

http://www.certforums.com/forums/computer-security/24861-does-uac-actually-increase-protection-malware.html

I have a Vista SP2 customer tomorrow with the symptom "My computer
keeps slowing down after I boot it and it fills up with
all kinds of crap". Can we say "Junkware?" I wonder how many
instances of the "Evil" Ask Toolbar he has installed. Probably
got Optimizer Pro installed too.

He has had this problem before. This time I will remove the admin
privileges from his user account. That will make him a lot more
like Linux, OSx, iOS when it comes to installing software.
He is a nice guy. I will have fun.

He really shouldn't have a Microsoft computer with its sloppy
security, but he has two critical business applications
that require Windows, so the bad new is that he is stuck
with Windows, and the good news is that there are ways to cope
with Windows.

I carry Malware Bytes with me. Never had it find anything other
than cookies. But, then I had already been over the computer
with a fine toothed comb first.

On the idiots front, most home users should probably just
use iPads. High powered business computers are not necessary
for the low skill user. (I hate the things [iPads]. When I get handed
one, I say a bad word or two under my breath. *^*%ing toy computers.)
You would not believe how few iPad users know how to exit programs.
Then again they really don't need to, as the iPad is not unstable
like Windows and they tend to use the same programs over and over.

-T
--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
the riddle wrapped in an enigma wrapped
in a couple slices of baloney
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Ron
2014-04-14 16:23:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by Todd
I carry Malware Bytes with me. Never had it find anything other
than cookies. But, then I had already been over the computer
with a fine toothed comb first.
MBAM doesn't detect tracking cookies. Perhaps you are talking about SAS
(SuperAntiSpyware)? I have run MBAM and SAS simultaneously on an
infected computer and while MBAM might find a dozen or more infections
SAS usually only finds tracking cookies.
Todd
2014-04-14 18:39:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ron
Post by Todd
I carry Malware Bytes with me. Never had it find anything other
than cookies. But, then I had already been over the computer
with a fine toothed comb first.
MBAM doesn't detect tracking cookies. Perhaps you are talking about SAS
(SuperAntiSpyware)? I have run MBAM and SAS simultaneously on an
infected computer and while MBAM might find a dozen or more infections
SAS usually only finds tracking cookies.
It was MBAM. My memory fades, I haven't used it in a while.
Maybe I am remembering problem URL's from cache.
Brian Gregory
2014-04-22 01:22:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by Todd
I carry Malware Bytes with me. Never had it find anything other
than cookies.
MalwareBytes AntiMalware doesn't search cookies.

Why would I trust anything you say if you can't remember something like
that.
--
Brian Gregory (in the UK).
To email me please remove all the letter vee from my email address.
Brian Gregory
2014-04-22 01:27:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by Todd
Hi Brian,
Have you seen these?
http://www.techrepublic.com/blog/it-news-digest/microsoft-admits-vista-uac-was-designed-to-annoy-users-and-developers/
http://www.certforums.com/forums/computer-security/24861-does-uac-actually-increase-protection-malware.html
The iReboot service doesn't get installed without a UAC prompt appearing.
--
Brian Gregory (in the UK).
To email me please remove all the letter vee from my email address.
Todd
2014-04-11 20:51:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by Roderick Stewart
Post by Todd
Why should they supply full version free of charge?
Maybe because they don't work without the key?
It would be nice if it worked with the same key that you've already
paid for. If I understand this correctly, if I need to reinstall
W8.1.1 on my laptop (on a replacement SSD for example), I can't just
install it once from a new system disk for the most recent version.
I'll have to install the original system first from a basic W8 disk
because that's what was installed on the laptop when I bought it,
*then* activate it with the original key, *then* upgrade it to W8.1,
not from a disk but by means of that 3.5GB download all over again,
*then* do the online upgrade to 8.1.1, which was another 800MB if I
recall corectly. It's still activated after all that, so presumably
would be if I had to do it all again, but what a performance! I have a
reasonably fast internet connection so it worked for me, but if
Microsoft have assumed that everybody can easily manage a download of
more than 4GB, they're going to annoy even more people than they did
with that bewildering new interface.
Rod.
Yes. It sucks.
--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
the riddle wrapped in an enigma wrapped
in a couple slices of baloney
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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